Etsy corporate gives canned reply to its Vintage Seller Community regarding missing drop down menu for Vintage shoppers

After 5 days, Etsy corporate sent one of its drone staff members into the Forums Bugs section to publish a canned reply to a thread discussed in my previous post  The reply appears on page 7 of the thread Drop down Menu for "Vintage" not working.

Read the reply from Lori W. there.  The canned bit is this:

"The Vintage drop down menu was removed from the navigation in September of 2017. In our research we found that most buyers are not first searching or browsing for items by when they were made or who made them. Buyers tend think about the item they want to buy, like a jacket or blanket, before deciding if they want it to be vintage or not. "

Maybe you don't remember the bit about shoppers "not first searching or browsing for items by when they were made or who made them", but I do.  It was first offered up to the Etsy seller community in 2012 as explanation for the 1) removal of the category list at the left side of Etsy's Homepage, replaced by 2) links to the "pin board" style Browse pages curated by Etsy that mixed a few (very few!) vintage items in with items listed as "handmade".

The takeaway from that bit of boilerplate is now, as it was in 2012, the revelation that Etsy corporate is tailoring the site to appeal to shoppers who don't care about either Handmade ("who made them") or Vintage ("when they were made").  Etsy's targeted shopper for the site as a whole is simply looking for jackets or blankets, the two items cited by Lori W.

Dunno about you, readers, but I find it surprising that Etsy offers up the same data on shopping behavior they used 6 years ago to pacify sellers.

But there it is, straight from the corporate keyboard:  Etsy is not interested in structuring the site so that shoppers searching specifically for Handmade or Vintage can find what they're looking for.

Clueless Etsy sellers finally notice there is something different about the Vintage link at the top right of the site's pages. It's been like that for like a year now?

Another round of Etsy Forums Follies, this time it's Vintage related.  First a thread in Discussions:  Drop down Menu for "Vintage" not working?!  Of course no one remembers that Etsy announced the change -- removing a drop down menu when you hover over the Vintage link.  But the clueless cupcakes are what they are, so in Dumb Bunny GirlWorld it has to be a "bug".  So, a thread is opened in Bugs:  Drop down Menu for "Vintage" not working  And an Etsy staffer tells them it's intentional.

The problem is the awkward (for all sellers, not just Vintage shops) Etsy category structure is a really poor fit for Vintage items in the way that collectors and gift-givers and decorators usually search for them.  Additionally, the customer Etsy targets for the site generally (not for any specific type of item) is a young woman aged 14-29 who obviously (based on her age) isn't all that interested in nostalgia for stuff at least 20 years old.  Etsy uses the first page at the Vintage link to showcase a curated, not entirely Vintage, selection to the customer the site is targeting.  Newish clothing, accessories and jewelry, digital downloads (not Vintage anywhere outside the mendacious Etsyverse), manufactured mineral specimens and decorative objects (stones are old, so crystal balls and agate coaster sets newly made are "vintage).

Check pages 1 and 2 at the Vintage link at the right top of the page, and have a look.  No matter the time of day, between 12 and 20 items on page 1 aren't Vintage...even though they are considered among the top 48 "vintage" items in terms of relevance on Etsy.

Wake up, Etsygirls!

UPDATE:  this happened not quite a year ago, in September 2017.  It was announced at the time as a "current test" and discussed in this thread in the Etsy Forums:  Vintage Sellers, I hope THIS IS BOOST TO US...  The original post quotes the test information:

Current tests
The information below is accurate as of September 26, 2017, and includes tests that are most relevant to sellers.
Type: Updates to Etsy's category navigation menu
What we're testing:
- Adding Art & Collectibles at the top of the category navigation menu
- Removing Kids & Baby from the top of the category navigation menu
- Expanding the Wedding category to Wedding & Party
- Making the Vintage category a clickable link that takes shoppers directly to the Vintage category page
- Additional changes to reorganize and regroup categories and subcategories within the category navigation menu
Goal: To simplify the category navigation menu so buyers can easily find products on Etsy.
Audience: A percentage of all buyers on Etsy.
Start date: September 2017
More information: This experiment does not impact the categories you’ve used to list your items. You don't need to make changes to your listings. Additionally, items in the Kids & Baby category will be included in relevant top-level categories, such as Clothing, Accessories, or Toys. 

Removing the drop down menu sent shoppers interested in vintage directly to a curated page with 9 Etsy "categories" at the top, each with a staff curated thumbnail photo which was not linked to the item shown, but the "category".  The categories then, as today, were:

• Home & Living
• Jewelry
• Art & Collectibles
• Clothing
• Craft Supplies & Tools
• Books, Movies & Music
• Accessories
• Toys & Games
• Bags & Purses

The same photo is not always shown for each "category".  Instead there is a small number of curated photos that can appear in each of the nine spaces.  But here's where Etsy shows the intention behind the change:  every time the page is accessed between 3 and 5 of the nine curated thumbnail photos show NEW -- not VINTAGE -- items for sale.  The link has been utilized as part of Etsy's "guided shopping experience" to clue in shoppers that "vintage" on Etsy doesn't have to be old.  Don't you love it, Etsygirls?

Here's where I had this information saved, in a post made to my companion blog in October 2017:  Etsy tests a new way to connect shoppers with vintage items...

One of the 4 items called out in that post as fake "vintage" is shown as the thumbnail for Accessories as I type this, 10 months later.  Because that's how #etsysellsvintage

Fake Vintage on Etsy today: top 100 most relevant Vintage items include many newer than 20 years old #etsysellsvintage

I haven't done one of these posts in a while, and thought another was overdue.  Read, and be amazed at what items are among the top 100 most relevant "vintage" listings on Etsy as I type.

Here's a new reproduction of The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap a game that was originally released in 2004 and 2005 (depending on location).  Listed by GamePalace who sells reproductions of games (not the original products), many of which were originally released in the 21st Century -- in other words, new copies of content newer than 20 years old can be sold as "vintage" on Etsy!

6 brand new units in stock.  Listing ranks as 84th most relevant Vintage listing.


Here's a Vintage Bible Journal Kit listed as a "vintage supply" even though the package includes (according to the seller's description) "a mix of old and a few new" pieces.  Listed by ThePaperBasket the package actually includes handmade (altered) paper items, which can't be considered "vintage" after being altered by the seller.  Clueless or mendacious or both?  You decide.

The photo above shows shapes stamped out of book pages and bookkeeping paper.  Listing ranks as 76th most relevant Vintage listing.


A contemporary printing of The Original Rider Waite Tarot gets backdated by mendacious seller TranscendentalismGB into a "vintage item from the 1910s".  This is true only in the Etsyverse where the guidelines for sellers allow the dating of any reproduction to the age of the original!

Buy the same boxed set for less on Abe Books where the publication date is listed as 1999.  This listing ranks as the 67th most relevant Vintage listing.

July 16, 2018

New fake vintage items ranked in the top 100 most relevant Vintage listings.  The 61st most relevant item is this brand new cast iron pointing finger hand listed by reseller xlr8imports who has an Etsy shop filled with brand new cheapie import products (hence the shop name) listed as "vintage".  You can be sure that no one that squeezes their support into the #etsysellsvintage Klown Kar has ever reported this seller.

Also resold by mendacious Etsy shop CosmicLibrary as a "vintage" crafting supply  xlr8imposts has the lowest price I've seen online -- just $7.99, 12 units in stock.  Also sold on eBay, Amazon, and some of the homewares sites.  Not Vintage!

Etsy buyers who don't comparison shop get ripped off by mendacious reseller of fake vintage 20thcenturydesignsny #etsysellsvintage

Yes, it's true!  An Etsy buyer paid the "reseller stupid tax", purchasing a lamp

• listed as "vintage" which is actually brand new
• priced at more than twice the market price
• that was mailed to the buyer missing its shade that comes with the base as sold everywhere else, and was listed by the deceptive seller as a lamp and shade

Instead of doing what a sensible buyer would do outside the Etsyverse -- demand the shade or a complete refund -- the buyer in this case left a 4 (out of 5) stars review, and says they might buy from this long term reseller's shop again if the description was more accurate.  Seriously?  A long term Etsy reseller's business model is creating deceptive listings to snare buyers who seem somehow unable to comparison shop online.

Let's meet the long term reseller who has been passing off brand new products as "vintage" literally for years.  20thcenturydesignsny was last featured in my companion blog during April 2018 and one of the fake vintage items I called out was this

Modern Geometric Table Lamp Fabric Drum Shade Diamond Shape Base

Note that the listing title (copy and pasted above) clearly mentions both the lamp AND the shade.  This is how it is sold by the manufacturer, as shown in the photo from 20thcenturydesignsny's listing -- which belongs to the manufacturer and is NOT an image of the actual product mailed to the customer.  Listed by 20thcenturydesignsny as a "vintage" item, it's actually new and easily found for sale online -- complete with the shade.  This eBay listing shows the brand (Lighting EVER), the manufacturer's product number, and the UPC -- showing that 20thcenturydesignsny deceived her buyer about this item being "vintage".  The eBay seller at the link is selling the lamp + shade for $32.99, including shipping.  20thcenturydesignsny originally priced the item at $75 (!) and then reduced the price to $55 (maybe when something happened to the shade?), and there was a shipping charge.  As I type you can buy this product directly from Lighting EVER on sale for just $20.32.

Okay.  I've shown that the buyer was ripped off in 3 ways (not vintage, comes with shade which was not shipped, and was massively overcharged by the greedy and mendacious seller).  Here's the review left by this so-not-savvy buyer:

The base itself has a great shape, but it is smaller than the picture/description suggests. HOWEVER, there is no lamp shade that came with the base, which was not specified in the description of the product. This should be explicitly mentioned next time an item like this is sold.
Bottom line: I'd buy this item again but I would want a clearer description telling you that it is just the lamp base, NOT the lamp shade and the base.

If the buyer who wrote the review above had read the review just below it, they would have realized that 20thcenturydesignsny is dishonest.  Check it out:

Product is NOT vintage—cheap little replica—going in a back guest room, so not worth fighting over

 The item purchased was this brand new, vintage style, starburst wall clock that the seller listed as a "vintage" item, and has sold 2 units (including the one reviewed above), with 1 unit still available for sale priced at $139 -- another brand new, easy to find, item priced at more than twice the market price.

How nice for the buyer that they consider paying $139 to a dishonest merchant "cheap" and getting ripped off "not worth fighting over".  Because if this buyer had comparison shopped simply by copying the photo (belongs to the manufacturer) from 20thcenturydesignsny's listing into Google Images, they would have discovered how much less you need to pay for the very same item!  Available for just $57.90 (free shipping, too) on Amazon  Just $70.99 on Wayfair  And $62.99 on Houzz

This, dear readers, is what makes Etsy "unique" and "special" (as described by CEO Josh Silverman):  the buyers on the site are happy to over-pay deceptive sellers for merchandise "not as described", and rarely demand a refund.  It's called the Etsy Reseller Stupid Tax for a reason.

Etsy shop WeLoveEstate lists Vintage items for sale that the don't have in their possession! Etsy Forums thread reveals the scam. #etsysellsvintage

This Etsy Forums thread popped up a few hours ago:  Someone hijacked my Ebay photos and listing and posted My antique item for $500 more than asking price on Etsy  Reading the first post, it seems than an Etsy shop stole the photos and listing information from an eBay BIN item, and listed the same item for sale,  and upped the price by $500 -- even though the Etsy seller does not have the item in their possession.

Actually, this practice has been around for over a decade.  I recall a seller on TIAS in the early 2000s  "borrowed" photos and descriptions from numerous antiques and vintage sellers all over the web.  She was discovered when one of the sellers of the actual items was testing the SEO for his website, and found a duplicate listing in the TIAS shop.  The stealing TIASite had her shop temporarily closed, but a few months later was back in business on the same site.  Apparently venue owners do not see this odd business practice as a problem.  Which is mistaken, in my opinion, because someone who makes a purchase from a seller who doesn't have the items shown in their shop most likely will have to do a chargeback with their payment processor.  This is not a positive thing for the venue hosting the deceptive seller, and a PITA for the buyer.

Doing a quick look for the item on eBay, I found it easily here  The eBay seller ID is a similar name to the person who started the Etsy Forums thread.  And, wow!  They have some amazing vintage jewelry pieces for sale on eBay.  Check them out, even just to have a look and enjoy.

The mendacious Etsy shop is WeLoveEstate  The seller's Profile Page says they have another Etsy shop, but the shop's name is not disclosed -- a violation of Etsy's rules.  Here's the "hijacked" eBay listing in WeLoveEstate's shop.

Note that WeLoveEstate is so confused about what they are selling they listed it as "vintage from the 1980s" even though the information copied from the eBay listing says 1930s.

I took a quick look through WeLoveEstate's other items, and some of them are hijacked from eBay as well.  This is a deceptive seller on mendacious Etsy.

Etsy Forums Follies: faux vintage reseller AttiCuties starts another self-promotional thread #etsysellsvintage

She's still at it!  AttiCuties started another self-promotional thread in the Etsy Forums today:  Adding Age in the Title -- Turn Off? Or Enticement?  The amusement factor here is that AttiCuties has been featured numerous times in my blogs for fake-dating newer collectibles that are less than 20 years old -- some pushed back 60+ years!  To see what I mean, check out my previous posts about this seller:

• February 2017 published in this blog
• April 2018 published in LDW Calls Out Fake Shaming Etsy and Its Resellers
• May 2017 also published in LDW Calls Out

Note that in today's Forums thread, a few comments mention a need to know the date of an item to find out if it is actually "vintage":  20+ years old, according to Etsy's guidelines.  

I have no idea why, but there are Vintage sellers on Etsy whose shops are almost all authentic Vintage items, but for some reason (unknown to me) they have to add in 10-25 percent newer pieces and fake date them in the listings.  Why bother?  Most of these items are small in size, and could be wrapped and stored in a single bin marked "future vintage" or something like that.  Or just sold on eBay. 

Of course, AttiCuties is still listing 21st Century items in her shop and backdating them.  Let's have a look at some of her newest fauxtiques!

This Queen of Chocolate pillow is pretending to be a "vintage" "Southwest find".  But it's not "vintage" -- it can't be any older than circa 2001, and is likely much newer.  Note the manufacturer's tag in the photo that clearly shows the letters ADI.

ADI was a supplier of homewares to institutions, according to this article from 2004 in Home Textiles Today  The article mentions that ADI moved into the home fashions business 3 years ago (2004 minus 3 = 2001) with various product lines including "decorative pillows".  Not Vintage.

Another item pretending to be "vintage" is this small ceramic plaque by Sandra Magsamen for Dept 56  Sandra did not start licensing her work until 1997, which means some items from various brands might be barely 20 years old today.  But this item is newer.  A version you can have personalized is currently being made, and sold at mega big box retailers like WAL-MART.  A knock-off is for sale on the Alibaba site.

The photo above is the only one included in the listing, which is unfortunate because the reverse side shows the designer's signature, the Dept. 56 branding info, manufacturing location, and copyright date: 2005!  Shown in this eBay listing for the same item by an honest seller who listed it as "used".

The plaque can't be Vintage until 2025.  Oops.

This RV themed 9 X 12 pillow is pretending to be "vintage" and "machine stitched in the 1990s".  Uh huh.

You can buy it wholesale from Simply Home or retail on Amazon for less than AttiCuties is asking for her used (not Vintage!) version.

This teddy bear ring bearer pillow by S. Lee Jaeger was supposedly acquired "many years ago" by a bride (see Description), but the photo showing the label on the reverse shows no copyright date.  However, it does show email and Blogger addresses which indicate the label is less than 20 years old -- if you know how old Blogger is.

The Blogger address on the label shows the pillow in a post dated February 2011 -- 7 years ago!

Fake dated back to the 1970s, this Homer Laughlin Fiesta Ware Chartreuse Mug is clearly not the original chartreuse color, nor is it the original design used for Fiesta Ware mugs.  The bottom mark, the color, the shape -- and the price! -- all show that this is a 21st Century product, not something "from the 1970s".  Pants.  On.  Fire.  

For you Fiesta fans out there, the original chartreuse was made during the 1950s.  The Fiesta made in the 1970s were the Ironstone pieces in three earthy colors popular at the time.  New chartreuse was made 1997-99, so this item might be Vintage (barely), but this mendacious seller is trying to pass it off as the original.  CAVEAT EMPTOR!

This cross pendant necklace might be Vintage, but the mendacious AttiCuties has back-dated it to the 1980s.  One look at the clasp and sellers who know Vintage jewelry can see it dates from the 1990s, at the earliest.

For jewelry artisans and manufacturers during the 1980s, lobster (as shown above) was NOT on the materials "menu".

AttiCuties claims that this Cindy Shamp pillow is 20+ years old.

But you can buy it brand new here for less than AttiCuties is asking for a used one.

In one of her listings with "1990s" at the beginning of the title, AttiCuties claims this Lillian Rose wedding ring pillow is 20+ years old.

But that looks like at date 2010 on the label in the photo above.  

AttiCuties always represents herself in the Etsy Forums as being very conscientious about researching and dating her Vintage items.  Like this New Millennium commemorative banknote from New Zealand which was issued....wait for it...in 2000.

As documented on this website with all kinds of info about New Zealand

So there you have it:  what AttiCuties means by "adding age".