Etsy Forums post asks Handmade or Vintage? And the dumb bunny seller community gets it wrong! #etsysellsvintage

Here's the thread:  Handmade or Vintage? It's over 10,000 years old.....but.....

The original post includes a link to an article at Siberian Times about an artisan who created a hat from 10,000 year old mammoth hair.

So, it's not 10,000 years old.  It's not even 20 years old (Etsy Vintage).  It's actually new, and Handmade.

But 4 of the dumb bunnies in the thread keyboard-titter moronically about it being "SUPER MEGA VINTAGE" -- which is EtsyverseSpeak for new Handmade.

Which is why Etsy's mendacious Marketplace Integrity Team revised the site's listing process to allow sellers to backdate new craft projects made with older materials into Vintageville.

And that's how #etsysellsvintage.

Etsy's Merchandising Team promotes more listings for new handmade products in featured thumbnails on the Vintage landing page #etsysellsvintage

It's a new month, and Etsy mendacious Merchandising Team has curated some new product category thumbnails at the top of the landing page under the Vintage link.

Let's have a look at what Etsy is promoting today as "vintage".

Soap seller PrettyGifty4U has the curated thumbnail spot under Vintage/Toys and Games for this Fiona the Hippo Kids Soaps Set listed as "vintage handmade".  19 color options, 237 sets in stock.

Obviously there is no yuck factor about soaps supposedly 20+ years old being used by children in the Etsyverse.  Everyone knows the Etsyverse never had a yuck factor about deceptive selling practices.  Not "vintage" and not a "toy" or a "game".


UPDATE AUGUST 7, 2018 -- More!

As the curated feature thumbnail for Vintage/Art & Collectibles, the mendacious Merchandising Team has chosen a digital download!  That's right, in the Etsyverse an item that has no physical existence when purchased, and is newly created on the buyer's device after the sale, can be sold as a "vintage item from the 1800s".  As an antique, over a century old!  The item is this digital file of a geological map  sold by KramStudioDesign has been chosen to represent the types of Art and Collectibles shoppers will find on the site -- and they're not "vintage".

Despite the evidence right there on the Vintage link landing page, the Vintage Seller Community remains clueless about how Etsy corporate views authentic Vintage items and Antiques for sale on the site.

More Etsy Forums complaints from the seller community about the quantity of fake vintage and fauxtiques for sale on the site #etsysellsvintage

Another one!  Here's the thread:  what is being done about NON VINTAGE items being sold as vintage?  The answer, in one word, is nothing.

Contrary to the icing drips from the Forums cupcake posts, there is nothing the Vintage seller community can do about this issue.

Reporting doesn't work.  All flags are reviewed by AI  before being seen by a real live human Etsy employee.  Most reports are simply discarded by the AI code, no matter the type of item being reported.  There is no way to know for sure, but my guess is only reports that deal with items that might get Etsy corporate into legal difficulties for being listed on the site are passed on by the AI.  This does not include IP violations, unless the community member making the report owns the IP in question.  Nothing else is addressed.

Any item can be considered "vintage" on Etsy if the seller describes it as a "reproduction".  That's right!  The item can be a brand new, fantasy vintage-style, piece never made until the 21st Century.  But it's all good according to Marketplace Integrity:  all Etsy sellers are honest, and if the seller says it's a "reproduction", then it is.  Additionally, items designated as "reproductions" can be dated to the age the seller believes the items represent, listed accordingly.  Such as "vintage from the 1910s" for a contemporary fake Nippon hat pin holder.  The word "reproduction" Teflon coats your listing, baby.

Etsy altered the listing form twice to include more items newer than 20 years old as Vintage.  The first time was circa 2011 when category double and triple dipping was added, to create nonsense listings like "vintage handmade" and "vintage handmade supply".  Of course it's possible that an artisan could have created some handmade glass beads, for example, 20 years ago -- and have some left to sell.  But most "vintage handmade" items turned out to be NEW handmade items created with "vintage" (maybe) materials.  This was reported to Etsy as a Bug in the Forums; resolved as "that's intentional, it's all good".  Except it's not:  it's not Vintage, except on Etsy.

The second change was offering the option to list "vintage" digital downloads, when digital items were added to the listing form, circa 2013.  A copy created after purchase isn't considered "vintage" anywhere outside the Etsyverse.

Etsy just wants the money from any listing, for any item, and it's the seller's choice whether to call a recently mass manufactured product Handmade or Vintage, even though it is neither.

If you don't care for the deceptive marketplace on mendacious Etsy, find another place to sell.  Etsy doesn't see fake vintage as a problem, and you're not going to convince them otherwise.

ShopatSullivan resells vintage style items on Etsy, and back dates them 40 years! Does being a fan of Anne of Green Gables make you mendacious? #etsysellsvintage

Once again I have to comment that shops on Etsy that professionally follow the published guidelines for sellers-- listing only items designed and/or made by them as Handmade, authentic Vintage items at least 20 years old, and stuff that is actually supplies for crafting -- are there merely to distract shoppers and (especially) stockholders/investors from the reality that about 50 percent of Etsy shops are reselling to some extent.

Meet ShopatSullivan who has been reselling contemporary products for years as "vintage".  Because they are an extremely low volume seller (just 28 sales made as I type), they are the only type of fake vintage shop that Etsy's Marketplace Integrity Team is likely to close.  Maybe giving them a feature here will nudge Etsy into shutting this one down, dunno.  But it's worth a try!

I previously called out ShopatSullivan in my companion blog, Fake Shaming Etsy and its Resellers, in a post dated January 27, 2018 about reselling iPhone related products as "vintage".  I periodically check shops featured in older posts to see what they are currently up to.  The item featured in January, an iPhone case for several obsolete models listed as a "vintage item from the 1970s", set this seller apart as an extravagant liar (and on mendacious Etsy that is quite an achievement!) and worth her own featured post.

The shop has no About section, but the seller's Etsy Community Member Profile says "we sell vintage inspired items" which is a clear admission that they are violating Etsy's published guidelines for Sellers.  Not that there is a problem with doing so -- remember, about half the sellers on Etsy are rule breakers.

Let's have a look at the items listed for sale by this lying sack of a reseller!

Pretending to be "vintage" is this Kazuri-Charleston Necklace offered in 3 colors, with 11 units in stock.  4 units have already been sold.  The mendacious seller's Description for the item explains that these contemporary necklaces are "hand crafted in Africa" "by single mothers in Nairobi".  And that the Etsy price of $18.28 each is half of the "original retail price".  Yup, that is what "vintage" is about on Etsy.

The item's Description also includes the web address of the wholesale source, Kazuri America.  Their Story page explains they are a "fair trade" organization.  Which does nothing whatsoever to justify deceptively listing these necklaces as "vintage".  Pants.  On.  Fire.


Another Kazuri Necklace listing pulls out all the mendacity stops and claims it is "vintage from the 1970s", maybe because Kazuri was founded in 1975.  Offered in 2 color choices, with 8 units in stock.

Finally, here's a deceptive listing for "Loose Leaf Herbal Tea" pretending to be "vintage supply from the 1970s" (anyone see a pattern here?); it's not herbal tea, however, but a blend.  Offered in 4 flavor mixes, 13 units in stock, 7 units already sold.

Of course these teas aren't vintage at all, or from the 1970s.  ShopatSullivan has their own boutique website where these tea mixes are sold.  I guess ShopatSullivan never realized that their deceitful Etsy shop would be link-connected with their stand alone business.  You're welcome, reseller.

"Sell anything on Etsy" -- In new Forums topic sellers discuss the flood of newish stuff pretending to be vintage on Etsy #etsysellsvintage

Here's the thread:  Sell anything on Etsy. Vintage....NOT.

Somehow these Etsy sellers have missed the gradual change during the past decade where the published guidelines for sellers actually allow new items to be sold as Vintage.

Examples:

• Downloads of digital files.  Only in the Etsyverse is that what is meant by a "vintage print".
• Reproductions.  On Etsy, you can date and price a brand new, Asian import, vintage-style item as if it was old -- even antique.  
• Rocks and minerals.  Sellers import pounds of these from Asia, recently mined and processed.  That is not what vintage means or is.  And finished products made from minerals (pyramids, spheres, columns, coasters) are brand new, mass manufactured, products from Chinese factories -- not Vintage outside the Etsyverse.
• Major brand overstocks of discontinued or seasonal items that are just a few seasons old.  These have been allowed by Etsy's Marketplace Integrity Team as "vintage" since 2012.
• Products made by the sellers from destroyed Vintage items.  Like "ephemera packs" that include pages removed from books and magazines in random or themed assortments.  Confetti stamped from vintage paper items.  Stacks of covers removed from Vintage books.  

Check out the listings of the top 100 most relevant Vintage (?) listings at the Vintage promotional link at the top right of every Etsy site page to see what I mean.  As I type there are

• 13 listings for mineral specimens
• 4 digital downloads or new printings of digitized "vintage" images
• 3 reproductions/newly made vintage style products
• 7 listings for altered, formerly vintage, items including clothing, furniture, confetti, and ephemera packs
• 2 listings for new native craft products made in a traditional style
• 4 "u pick" clothing assortments where no items are shown in detail.  Used?  Probably.  Vintage?  Who knows.

So there's the consistent percentage of non-vintage listings in all Vintage "promotions" on the site:  31 items (above) out of 98 (first 2 pages) most relevant listings = 32% or 1/3. 

The problem is not a matter of inadequate "policing" to enforce the rules.  The rules actually allow these items to be listed on Etsy as "vintage".


Update:  some comments in response to inaccuracies in posts in the Forums thread linked above.

Page 1 "a real person has to go over every report".  Nope.  Etsy has programmed AI code to review all flags/reports, to select which ones should be reviewed by a human.  The majority of reports are discarded before being read.  This is why reporting/flagging no longer works to remove shops and/or items that are clearly in violation.  While there is no information from Etsy about what reports are retained for human review, I am guessing that they concern items whose presence on Etsy might get the corporation in some kind of legal trouble.  

Page 1 (bottom) "they remove things right away when the obvious are pointed out -collectible dated 2004, dvds that were releases in 2010.. things like that."  Nope.  This hasn't been the case since the introduction of the (now defunct) Browse sections.  Items curated into the Vintage Browse section that showed a date (such as 2004) on the item, clearly visible in the curated-in thumbnail were not removed, but promoted.  See this post dated May 2015 from my companion blog Fake Shaming Etsy.  The third item shown in the post has a clearly visible 2004 on it, but it was curated into Vintage Browse by Etsy staff.  In November-December 2015, Etsy was promoting "vintage" STAR WARS collectibles in anticipation of the release of THE FORCE AWAKENS in Dec. 2015.  Somehow Etsy staff considered collectibles related to a yet unreleased film to be "vintage" -- see this post from early December 2015 in my companion blog about non-vintage items included in a "Vintage" STAR WARS promotion.

Page 2 "Etsy has never claimed to be a curated site".  Not the site as a whole, but all promotions are curated.  Etsy staff used to curate ALL the front page collections at the start, changing over to a shared curation with community created "treasuries".  Promotions curated by Etsy staff, in 2007 through today in 2018, have always included reseller items pretending to be "handmade" or "vintage", or contemporary handmade items the seller decided (for visibility) to list as "vintage".  Again, take a look at my companion blog Fake Shaming Etsy for many posts about the items featured in Etsy staff CURATED promotions.